Hello, and thanks for tuning into Taste Radio, the number one podcast for anyone building a business in food or beverage. I'm Ray Latif, the editor and producer of Taste Radio, and I'm with my co-hosts for this episode, John Craven, Melissa Traverse, and Mike Schneider. In this episode, we celebrate a milestone anniversary, explore how CPG brands are energizing consumers beyond the bottle, spotlight a wave of innovative snack and beverage brands, and feature an interview with Jordi Vinals, the managing director of acclaimed Spanish winery, Marqués de Vargas.
Thank you to everyone who came out to our Taste Radio Austin meetup. Woo-hoo. A fantastic event. Humongous thanks to our partner Nutribolt and their incredible office, as well as our national partners for the Taste Radio meetups, the Angel Group, Vibrant Ingredients, and Belay Solutions, and of course, our amazing partners for the Austin event, Corner Market Communications and Next Foods.
More events on the horizon, including Chicago in August, San Diego and San Francisco in September, and London. London, England. I love that London always gets a little accent- London ... or whatever you want to call it. Yeah. London, England. London, mate. In October. I was gonna say, at least he didn't do a fake- He
accent. You just did a weird Australian one. It was weird. Yeah. Anyway. It was pretty... It was Australian. Yeah. Yeah. Mike doesn't know the difference. I don't. It's okay. He's an Arsenal supporter. I'm just happy about a- This is gonna end up on the internet, Ray ... certain match that happened yesterday.
I don't know what you're talking about. City. Okay. Everton. You know what I'm talking about. I know what you're talking about. You know exactly what I'm talking about. Okay. You broke the time machine. Yes. Well- Oh, oh, indeed. Who cares? Speaking of a time machine, May 2026 marks a big anniversary for everyone sitting here, and especially for our CEO, John Craven, who's also sitting here.
Am I? Are you? You're an illusion. Wow. I'm asleep again. Wow. A hologram. I'm on Zoom. Yes. Yes. No, Thanks for the playlist ... yeah, this is the 30th anniversary of BevNET, and what a ride it's been and what an influence that the company has had on this industry and beyond. I think, BevNET in some ways is a cultural institution as much as it is a business one.
It is funny, and I'm just gonna point this out. I have a sister who lives in Los Angeles, and she has a friend who is a crazy beverage nerd. He's not involved in the industry any way, in any way, shape, or form. And a few years ago when she told him that I work for BevNET, he was jumping up for joy. He's "I love BevNET."
He's "That is the most, that is my favorite website. I'm on there every single day." And I don't think he's the only one. Certainly from an industry standpoint, BevNET is the go-to resource for beverage, for food, beer, and beyond. But I think, again, the impact goes even further than that.
So kudos to you, John, you and Carolyn for building this incredible company, and speaking personally and I think for others in the room, offering such gainful employment and really enjoyable gainful employment to so many people who are currently with this company and those who have, gone on to do different things as well.
What a ride. Thanks, Ray. Yeah. I think BevNET team members have some of the most longevity of certainly anywhere. Who has the most years under their belt at this point? John McKenna. McKenna. Yeah. And then Jeff and then Stern. And what's that, like 20 years or something? 20 years and beyond, yeah.
McKenna was, like, 2003. Unbelievable. Yeah, long time. Yeah. John Fisher's been with you for a long time as well. Yeah, he and I started working together in 2000, so yeah. Wow. Yeah. On something else, but- Yeah, so when you get that email from Fisher, reply to it. All we're doing is just saying we're, we're- Ask him some questions about BevNET, we're old. He's been around for a while. I don't know what else to say. I think he wrote it. I think that's part of it. I think there's a family aspect to this as well- ... which is that, you spend time with people that you like and spend time with people that you love, and you don't want to leave a situation that feels comfortable but also rewarding and challenging at the same time, and I think that all represents my experience at BevNET, which, when I came here in 2011, I didn't know a thing about anything.
And I give a ton of credit and respect to John and the team for giving me a chance. And, since then, I really have found this experience extremely rewarding and challenging and fun, and met some of my best friends in the world here at BevNET. I shout out Adam Stern. And, and I think more than anything- Yeah, the Bert to your Ernie.
Yeah. Wait, I'm Bert, right? Yes. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Only Stern would go kch. Yeah. But more than anything, it's given me an opportunity to help people as well. I'm able to pay this forward. I just recorded an episode of Elevator Talk, which again, is our bi-monthly series that profiles early stage and disruptive brands from across the food and beverage industry.
And just having an opportunity- Yes, we'll take you ... just having an opportunity to share awareness and bring awareness to small and emerging brands, to give people a platform to talk about what they're doing and talk about their passions, and pair them with an expert in the industry, whether they're an investor, a retailer, or otherwise, is incredible.
And our co-host yesterday was talking about this, just talking about you guys have just provided an amazing platform for early stage founders to talk about what they're doing, and shed light on the incredible industry as it's unfolding in front of us. I've had a lot of jobs, as I think you all know. If I look at my spreadsheet, I think this is number 36.
So you have a spreadsheet of jobs? I do. Wow, okay. I do. Geez. I've done pretty much everything there is. More about that another time. But, By the way, this is probably number 35 and 38, right? 35 and 38. Yeah. Wait a second. Are you sure I'm Bert? It sounds like Melissa's Bert.
I do like to clean. Geez ... but so I- Do you have pigeons? I'm sorry. I go to South Street every now and then. Bottle caps. Paper clips. The similarities, these are never ending. But so I know a little bit about what it's like to work places, and it really is unusual to work somewhere where you feel like the people who are running the company actually care about you as a human being, which certainly is the case for BevNet.
And I think that translates to how we interact with our community- I think so ... and, how we truly care about all of the entrepreneurs and brand builders that we talk to, and that we see at our events and meetups. And it really has a trickle-down effect where, we feel really good about what we're doing.
So yeah, it's a pleasure. Yeah, thanks for building this place. Yeah, thanks. Hey, anytime. It's, It's one of those cliches where you say here's to another 30 years at BevNet." And, you wonder about the future and whatnot, but you don't worry about it here. You think about what's possible and what's next from a standpoint of how can we better help the community, how can we be a better partner- Because that's what our community's thinking of- ... every single second- Yeah ... of every single day. What's next? What can we do and where do we do it, and how do we do it? From the, the new beverages, like juice on your on your desk over there, to even pop water here, to the Essentias of the world, everybody's thinking about what do I do next?
Yeah. And of course, where else is a better place to find out what's next other than bevnet.com, nosh.com, brewbound.com, tasteradio.com, nonbased.com, and of course BevNet Live- Oh, it's coming up ... which is coming up soon. June 10th and 11th. It's happening... Oh, my gosh, it's- a month ... it is a month.
It's pretty much- Craziness ... a month away. Yes. Crazy. And people are signing up at a record rate, which is fantastic. I'm really excited for New York City. I'm really excited to hear from some of the incredible speakers that we'll have on stage, including Olivia Ferdie and Daniel Curry, who are the co-founders of Trip, Richard Laver from Lucky Energy, Tom Furse from Culture Pop, Samantha Fletcher, who is, again, you've heard me talk about this, one of the best people I know.
She's a retail buyer for Whole Foods. She's more specifically a senior category manager for adult non-alcoholic beverages. Ellie Truesdell, a former Whole Foods-er, who is now a managing partner with venture capital firm New Fair Partners, and many more folks. And of course, your peers, your fellow entrepreneurs, other retail buyers, other investors, other distributors- Decision-makers
decision-makers, just folks that you want to meet. PR firms, designers. Oh, my gosh. Folks that- The industry's gonna be there ... that frankly you need to meet. You need to meet these folks. Brokers, distributors. You said it You know, I actually worked with Ellie Truesdale at Whole Foods Market. She is spectacular.
She was instrumental in helping Siggi's dial down the sugar in their yogurts. We actually went to Iceland together for a an Icelandic lamb trip that they they had us help with the lamb roundup and yeah, so she's amazing. But you work here now. I know. You got to go to Iceland at one point, wow.
Yeah. What number is that on the spreadsheet? I think that is number 32, 30. It might be 30. Okay. Did you ever pack fish in Alaska? I did actually pack fish in Alaska, yeah. Wow. And you found the job in a comic book, right? Basically. That was one of, that was one of the worst jobs, but not the worst, which is really saying something.
So if you, if ever want to talk to the person who did that job, it's Melissa. Just let me know. I know all about it. Oh, boy, indeed. Oh, boy. That's all I've got. I don't know. Yeah. You don't wanna miss this event. If you're involved in the beverage industry in any capacity, BevNET Live is the place to be.
Once again, June 10th and 11th. To learn more, to register for the event, head to bevnetlive.com. One of the things that I always do at BevNET Live is drink coffee. I end up drinking, I don't know- Yeah ... probably 10 cups of coffee a day. That's not that's not hyperbole. And at a certain point, I'm sure the caffeine is, just has no effect on me, but I keep drinking coffee.
We need a new source. I need a different way, 'cause then it stains my teeth. Maybe I have coffee breath. Maybe I just don't know about any of this stuff and it's been going on for 15 years and now I have to right the ship here. You're fine, right? Yeah. You're like a human raisin, so dehydrated.
Wow. Wow. It took me a second to think about what that meant. Wow. I was thinking this sounds like an SNL commercial where the punchline's gonna be, like, meth or something. Oh. That's a functional ingredient. Ooh, that's a new company. He's "I have 10 cups of coffee. If only there was a better way."
When are we gonna have meth? It's like literally anything. I don't know. When are we inventing meth net? This is- I'm not the kind of person who brushes his teeth middle of the day. I do it in morning, I do it in the evening. Yeah, you like your Listerine strip. I do like my Listerine strips, if you're drinking that much coffee- You want a caffeine Listerine strip.
Ooh. They already have those. I'm sure they do. It's just not, yeah, not Listerine branded, but they have those. But this, that's a good point because I think there are people who don't necessarily wanna drink coffee, who don't want energy drinks, who don't want to consume their caffeine via liquid form.
And so it seems and we're clearly seeing, that there are a lot of new alternatives to energy in beverage form. There was a data report that was released on nonbased.com that you can go check out by the Brightfield Group. They're a social listening data platform, and they talked about just this recently, and they were, saying that caffeinated gum is one of the fastest growing new formats for energy and caffeine- snacks, so energy bites, energy balls.
They were talking about granola bars. But I think they said something like over 60% of US adults wish they had more energy, and, caffeine does that's for sure. And I think gummies seem to be another format that people are embracing for caffeine, for energy. On stage at the Naturally San Diego Naturally Rising Pitch Slam was a brand called Oku.
Oku was founded by Carolyn Hamlet, and it is a brand of energy gummies. And she describes it on the website as energy reinvented as a snack. So the energy that she describes is conscious energy, and she's got that trademarked too. Clean caffeine and fiber in every pouch. And I also recently got sent a couple pouches from a brand called Gate Drop.
They market energy gummies as well. Twenty-five milligrams of caffeine per gummy. There's also additional vitamins, including B6 and 12, D3, and K2. There's 25 gummies per 2.5-ounce pouch. I think I'm gonna I'm gonna give these a whirl. I really think that this is the kind of stuff that is probably better for me and will lessen my need to brush my teeth or go to the bathroom more often.
I don't know. I mean- Wow ... I can't be the only one who's- No, you're not. No. There's a process that happens when you have coffee, for sure. But if you were to trade out your coffee, which I know is just mind-blowing to think about, Mike, what would be the format that you'd embrace most?
Or what would be the format that you'd turn to? Mike would become a Man U- Why would you do that? What? I was gonna say, you'd become a Man U supporter before you'd give up coffee. Wow. Wow. Maybe. It's probably true. I just wouldn't drink caffeine. I'm not a big caffeine user. I just like coffee. Oh, interesting.
See, I love coffee so much that I don't wanna get caffeine other places, 'cause I always wanna drink coffee when I want caffeine. When I don't drink coffee, I don't have caffeine, so I don't try to replace it with something. I just don't. On the w- a lot of weekends I don't have coffee, or when I do, I come in here and make some, but sometimes- In that Brightfield report, they also talked about some of the functional ingredients that we're seeing less of that are declining in popularity.
The two that I thought were most interesting were ketones and guarana. I feel like we saw a f- a number of ketone drinks come through the BevNET doors for a little while. It's hard to mask the flavor of- It is ... ketones. What about chill? What about relaxation and how that function applies to snacks?
I have in my hand a brand called Vibes, V-I-B-E-S. They're a maker of what they call Fruity Stars, which are gummies, and they're made with chamomile. The variety is Sour Watermelon Chill. And the brand is de- described as functional and snackable goodness. I bought this in San Diego from some convenience store, I forget exactly where.
And I have not yet tried this, but this might be a bad idea I never thought about chamomile gummies. In that Brightfield report, they are also talking about how adrenal support and cortisol support is something that people are looking for more and more, so this makes sense. They taste great, and I feel like the candification of function or functionality has been pretty cool to see as well.
Candification . They taste- Candification Is that a new word? Yeah you know what else I've been hearing- These are tasty ... more and more about, which I find to be very surprising, is nicotine. The manosphere Andrew Huberman and Joe Rogan, they're all about- The manosphere ... nicotine and z- zens, right?
But I'm- Ugh ... I'm always so surprised when that comes up, that's something that... Are people going back to that? I don't know. I don't know. It's ridiculously addictive. Yeah. I'm sensitive to nicotine, Ray. I... We can talk about that later, but my mom used to smoke cigarettes in the car with the window barely cracked and, yeah I'm mad triggered by anything nicotine-oriented now
Gotcha, gotcha. You're you've cut back on the on the booze too. You're very much sober curious, and you're... Like, I know you have a drink once in a while. Yeah, every once in a while. Yeah. I wonder if you'd need a product like the one John just crushed over there, which is called Rally, R-A-L-L-Y, which is a recovery shot that uses pickle juice as its hero ingredient.
Pickle juice hydration. Yes. We met the founder at our Taste Radio New York meetup. Yes. And it's a good-looking brand, a good-looking bottle right there. Yeah, it's, what, a three-ounce, two-and-a-half-ounce format here. Clear liquid. Doesn't look like that swampy sorta pickle juice of the past.
Yeah, it's got that tart, mouth-puckering flavor of pickle juice. I don't need it for recovery. I would drink that. I love pickle juice. Yeah, using it for recovery, I think it's kinda interesting. That intense flavor, I could see that. But it's it's kinda cool. I like the brand. It's got a, I don't know, kinda retro vibe to it.
Yeah. It definitely does. It feels like it's got the same font and feel of a tennis brand that I can't put my finger on It does, it's so tennis Yeah, like tennis balls. That thing is so tennis. Something like that, yeah. If that bottle was wearing an outfit, I feel like it might be roller skates and bell-bottoms.
There you go. In a good way. In a really good way. Roller derby? Yeah. Smoking a cigarette. Yeah. But anyway. Yeah. Smoking a cigarette. The official shot of roller derby. Rally. Brett Weisberg is the founder, and we met him once again in New York at our meetup, and he was very gracious to send us some samples.
And I took one the night of our meetup, and I felt pretty good in the morning. Nice. Don't know if that's the ringing endorsement that everyone was looking for but you know what, it is not as punch-you-in-the-face kind of pickle juice flavor as you might expect, which is also great. It tastes just enough like pickle juice.
What's the ingredient that makes it a recovery shot? I think it's all the sodium. Yes. And the pickle juice, yeah. Nice. Yeah, nice indeed. Mike has in front of him four cans of the newest brand launched by Yani Hufnagle, who most folks know as the founder of Lemon Perfect. His new brand is called Popwater, P-O-P-W-T-R.
It's described as a brand of beverages that taste like soda but hydrate like water. It's pretty tasty stuff. Have you had a chance to try it yet? No, I haven't. I brought- Does it actually taste Okay, so there's- Here, have- There's four varieties ... which one do you like? So we've got grape, we've got orange, lemon lime, and cotton candy here.
If I'm looking for something that tastes like soda, I'm probably gonna go with the orange. Okay, that's a great call. Here. Yeah. You take the orange. Which one would you like, Melissa? Ooh, I would love the lemon lime. Thank you. Jon, grape or cotton candy? He's going with, he's going with grape. I'm going with cotton candy.
Yes. I've already sampled all these. Yeah, me too, so so the label design here is fantastic. I wanted to point that out, Ray, because this is for me the perfect label design here, except for my least favorite part, which is that the logo is- Vertical ... is vertical. But just the flavor cues on each of these are spot on.
You've got your lemon lime is the green. You got your orange y- that you know is orange. You got your purple grape, and your pink cotton candy. And then also just the words that they really grab you, like cotton candy, you can see it, and it's also on the top of the label. So that's the first thing you're gonna see when you see this thing.
And then tastes like soda, hydrates like water, zero sugar. He's made some really great choices, and then you can turn the can, and you can see zero calories, seven essential vitamins, hydrating electrolytes, no artificial colors or flavors, please recycle. It's a really really nicely designed can. It's very tasty, and I do love that they use magnesium citrate and B vitamins, just like we were talking about.
People are looking for a little extra boost. Yeah, the statement of identity is at least for this product, an orange flavored sparkling water with other natural flavors. However, I would describe this as a soda. It tastes like soda. It tastes like soda. I would consume this in drinking occasions where I am looking for a soda.
So I think the description of tastes like soda, hydrates like water is good. I wonder who is looking for a product like this versus just saying, "I want a soda," or, "I want water." I think anyone who's looking for a better-for-you soda would find this at least interesting. I also think if you're out at night, and you're drinking, and you don't wanna drink alcohol the whole night long, this has electrolytes in it.
There's, hydrating benefits. It may be something that you wanna do to, ward off a hangover the next morning. And it's not something you're gonna immediately slam like a Gatorade. You can- Yeah ... there's carbonation in here. It tastes like soda. It slows you down a bit. It's tasty.
You gotta pair some pop water with some ... Was that Wandel? Great job, Yanni. Wandel. What's Wandel? Wandle describes itself as a soft-ish, Swedish, Jew-ish bite. Apparently, it's based on a Jewish mandel brot. But it basically is kinda I don't know, think one bite brownie sorta situation. This stuff's NLS, man.
It's really good. And yeah, they got- What's the NLS? Next level. Next level. Weed. Got it. Oh. Yeah, they got a couple flavors here: milk chocolate chip and cinnamon sugar, that's one flavor; zesty lemon and poppy seed; and my personal favorite, which is the dark chocolate with sea salt. Which is half gone.
Yeah. Here. I was like, "Here, Mike, have some." I tried the lemon one. It's tasty. I think these are super tasty. It's definitely a bit of an indulgent snack 170 or 180 calories per two pieces. It's like a little mini brownie kinda thing. Yeah, little dessert. Yeah, little dessert. I feel like it might need a little better kinda product description on it, but these are super good.
Nice looking package, too. It's got a nice big shot- ... of the product on there. Yeah. You can picture this on the shelf next to a Lexington Bakes. It's almost as indulgent. It's not quite there, but it's tasty. Born in Brooklyn, so you know it's legit and hipster and stuff probably. Ah, super legit
The chocolate chip one is so tasty, and they have a little sprinkle of sugar on top, which I think is such a nice touch. Yeah. Wandel. Yeah, W-A-N-D-E-L. I'm pretty sure I saw these at the Summer Fancy Food Show last year. Great-looking product. It definitely feels like it's different, right? If you're looking for a snackable afternoon kind of treat- Yep
this definitely fits the bill and is not what you've seen on the market. It's just not, it's not another me too at all. I feel- It definitely feels like a new type of product ... pretty satiated after one too, so that's pretty great for me 'cause as somebody who will go crazy ... You could eat the whole bag?
I couldn't because after one I'm like, "Great," and then I have more for later, so I feel like that's pretty good. The other thing that I really love about this product is the familiarity across the flavors. There's a certain texture, just a certain similarity in each of the ones that you taste even though they're all different flavors.
Trying one isn't gonna stop you from trying the others. You know what I mean? It's, if you like one, you'll like them all, I think. For sure. That's a good thing. Yeah. Melissa's Wandle is just hanging on precipitously on top of her can of pop water. Wow. I'm saving it for after lunch. Yeah.
Mine is so gone. Yeah. But she's got another pouch of products to her right there. What is this? That's right. So I have Purposefuel Snack Bites here. We actually had Caroline Stevens at our New York City Taste Radio meetup, and this was one of my favorite products from the whole event. These are plant-based superfood snack bites, and this is right in line- Wow
with what we were talking about earlier with the Brightfield group. There is caffeine in here, so she has 14 milligrams of caffeine. Not a lot, just a little bit, and the flavor is matcha lemon. Did you guys try these? Yes. They're amazing. Yeah. The lemon flavor is just absolutely perfect. It's dialed in so excellently, and it matches the matcha so well.
These are so tasty. I could eat a whole bag of these easily. Yeah. Purposefuel, cool name, and these snackable bites, again, great for the afternoon when you're having that hanger right around 3:30 or so. You have a couple of those, you're good to dinner. I see in the ingredients she's using cardamom and freeze-dried lemon.
I don't know. It's just th- her R&D came out so well. The formulation is so tasty. Yeah. Purpose Fuel, good stuff. Nice. Met the folks from a brand called Jous at the Taste Radio Miami- Miami ... meetup. Yeah. Jous is J-O-U-S, and they make hydrating fruit drinks is what they describe on their cans. Seven grams of sugar with magnesium and 50 calories per can.
The cans are white, and the flavor for this one is key lime. Let's give this a whirl. These beverages, this one in particular, key lime is their first SKU, and they're also working on an orange. It's 45% juice, seven grams of sugar- And it's sweet, but it's also tart. It's a really nice flavor. Yeah, surprisingly sweet and tart with only seven grams of added sugar.
And I was not expecting to ever love a lime-flavored beverage, and that's exactly what this is. This is delicious. It's a very tasty beverage. They chose to put magnesium on the front. They made some choices on this can. It looks super premium. Absolutely. Camilo Ortiz and Nicholas Jeffrey, thanks so much for sending samples- Thanks
of Jous. Now, there's another can by Melissa's right here. I saw this in a bode- I s- also saw this product in a bodega, except this bodega was in New York City. It's a brand called Dirty Virgin. What is that? Dirty Virgin is a non-alcoholic electrolyte beverage, and I actually just spoke with James Zachler and John Maloney this week.
They were also at our event. What, were at- Yeah ... the New York City event. Yeah. Yeah, they were. Yeah, they were at our event, and they are actually changing the name from Dirty Virgin to Dirty Virgo. They got some feedback that Dirty Virgin isn't the most family-friendly name. So as they start to expand- and, maybe thinking about retail down the line, they're gonna change the name of the product. Wait, it needs to be family-friendly for... What is the beverage? So it's a non-alcoholic electrolyte beverage. That was some of the feedback they got. For kids. Yeah those Virgos so dirty anyway.
Hey, wait a second. Oh, geez. But you know what I liked about this beverage, the flavor of the beverage was fantastic. They don't use any non-nutritive sweetener. They use agave. There's 45 calories, nine grams of sugar, but I think it's such a tasty product, and both of them have previous alc and non-alc experience.
James was at Pernod Ricard and AB, and then John was at AB and Cleanco, so they know what they're doing. Yep. I like the name Dirty Virgin, but I can see why they might wanna change the name. They're going for something that is a bit shocking and oxymoron, and Dirty Virgo still is, too, because Virgos are known to be, like, really healthy and fitness-oriented, right?
Yeah, and crazy. They said they, they- They said they were finding- I didn't say that ... that there were a lot of Virgos in CPG because you know- They're crazy ... the name elicits the... Yeah. Let's end with a nut sack. Ugh. Quickly, and do this kind of quickly here. Just why? It's a big nut sack.
Yes. Yeah, why, exactly. That is a big nut sack. Oh, geez. Ugh. All right, listeners. It is. Please stay with us for a moment. Okay, so there's a brand called Chica Chida. C-H-I-C-A C-H-I-D-A- Will you look at the size of that nut sack? Stop. It's large. Stop. Stop. Chica Chida is a brand of peanut butter-flavored tequila.
It's definitely a unique type of brand. I can't think of another peanut butter-flavored tequila out there. It's been out for, I wanna say a couple years, and- Recently, they introduced this burlap bag that contains 10 50-milliliter bottles of their tequila, and they describe it as we describe it, as a nut sack.
That's why we said that. Yeah. They don't describe it. It literally is in giant block letters on the front of it, just to be crystal clear for people listening. That's a description. It says, Chica Nut Sack" on the front. That is definitely a nut sack. Yeah. Yeah. Just say it like that. That's what it says.
I, I just I'm trying to give you guys a little bit of you know- Why are we being idiots? That's why ... a, yeah, a place for redemption, and you just- ... set it on fire. It's okay. No redemption here. Oh, I see. I see. I see. Yeah. I see. Okay. Yes. Yeah, I don't know, I don't know what we're gonna do with this.
But sample captain Colin, who I would consider the target consumer for products like these- Okay ... because he is a young man in his mid-20s. I figure the peanut butter tequila sounds like it's appropriate for that demographic. Should I have a sandwich? Yeah, he- Or a drink? He seemed kinda nonchalant about this.
Yeah. So I don't know if, I don't know. We- we'll see. We'll see who in the office is really gonna grab this nut sack. Who's gonna take it? Okay. Yeah. Oh, God.
Hey, folks. It's Ray with Taste Radio. Right now I'm honored to be sitting down with Jordi Vinals, who is the CEO of Marqués de Vargas. Jordi, it's great to see you. Great to see you also. It's great to see you particularly in this setting, because we're at the Nassau Paradise Wine and Food Festival at The Atlantis, and it is, it's more like 80 degrees outside, and we're outside right now, which is nice. Fun festival. A little humid. But it's fine. Is this your first time in The Bahamas? It's my second time. Second time. Yeah, I came first time when we started with our importer, with Young's Wines. That was, like, five, six years ago.
And this is my second time, yes. Welcome back. Thank you. So- It's always a pleasure. It... Isn't it nice? So for listeners who might not be familiar with the story behind Marqués de Vargas can you start by sharing the origins of the winery and how the family's vision has shaped the company since?
Okay. Marqués de Vargas is a family title. Marqués is marquise in Spanish. And it's one of the oldest families from Rioja, and Rioja is one of the oldest wine regions in Spain. So the actual Marqués is the 12th Marqués de Vargas, and his family have been, after generations, cultivating vineyards in Rioja.
We have three different wineries, but everything has started with Marqués de Vargas in Rioja. And what types of wine do you produce? Just for, our audience who may not be as learned about wines, what are the varietals that you typically produce? First of all, let me tell you, we are a very special winery in Rioja because we follow a chateau concept, meaning that it's a single vineyard wine.
Out of the more than 600 wineries that there are in Rioja, we are only three or four that produce only wines with our own grapes. So in this sense, we are a boutique winery, and we only produce the top-end wines top of the range, so starting with reserva, Gran Reserva, and single-plot wines.
And it's mostly Tempranillo is the grape? In Rioja, there are four different grape varieties. The main one is Tempranillo. But Rioja is always about blending varieties. It's the art of blending, what characterize Rioja in Spain. So we have four of them in our vineyards in different plots, according to the needs of each of the variety.
Always very old vines, and we blend them four to produce our wines. So you talked about single vineyard as being a key point of differentiation for Marqués de Vargas- Absolutely ... and estate-grown grapes as well- Yes ... in particular. Yes. How do you communicate that to consumers such that it's clear the benefit that they're getting from buying your wines?
We always think that to make a great wine, one of the great wines in the world, you need three things. The first and very basic is the wine has to taste good. But this you can get it easily in many places around the world. The second thing that a great wine has to have is what we say typicity.
That means reflect the region it comes from. We only use local varieties, indigenous varieties, indigenous grapes, because we want to make sure that our Rioja wines taste Rioja, our Ribera wines taste Ribera, and our Alvariños taste Rías Baixas. Then the third level, which is to make really great wines, is the identity, and the identity you can get it when always your wines come from the same vineyard.
So year after year, no matter the climatic conditions, you are gonna always find this identity in our wines. Wine consumption definitely something of a challenge, at least in the United States over the past few years. Younger consumers are just not drinking wine as much as they had in the past. I think- most folks, regardless of age, are drinking less wine than they have in the past. But what trends are you paying attention to most at this point in terms of how people discover and drink wine? What you say is absolutely true. The young people are drinking less. Even the drinker, the usual drinkers, wine drinkers are drinking less, but they are drinking better, and this is something that we see more and more, no?
That people are drinking less volume but better quality. And fortunately, we are in this part of the pyramid, no? We are at the top end of the pyramid, so we produce wines for connoisseurs. We are not starting wine. We are wines that people will get there- ... after having some experience.
I see the situation more like a cycle than structural. And I think that most of the young people that now are starting with other drinks eventually will also, maybe not in the hu- huge quantities, but eventually will also drink good wines. I would tend to agree. I think wine is an undervalued beverage in a lot of ways because people don't necessarily understand how to consume it or the use occasion, how to pair it with food.
I think sometimes wine can be a very intimidating beverage. It's true. It's one of our faults, that we've make it a little bit too complicated. How do you make it less complicated? Again, as we are not an entry-level wine, we are not really paying attention on how to attract new consumers because those consumers are not gonna come to our wines in first place.
So this, in a way we consider it a job for the people who do the big volume. And we will wait for people to understand and know better. Hopefully they do a good job on that messaging. Premium is very important to you, standing out as a premium wine. I think premiumization has been a big theme across beverage alcohol.
Are you seeing consumers trade up to Spanish wine in particular, and where do you see the most growth coming from in the category itself? Spain is funny because it's a country it's one of the three biggest producers of wine, together with France and Italy. But for historical reasons we've arrived late or later than Italy and France to many markets, so in, in a way, we are not yet very well known.
Obviously, that depends on the countries. In South America, there are very good markets for us. In many countries in Europe, there are very good markets for us. But let's say that North America Mexico is very good, but US and Canada, we are less known. In Asia, we are less known than Italy or France. So we have a long way to go.
I think about the opportunity you have here in the United States, where people seem to love Spanish food, and they understand tapas restaurants, and they are drinking wine in those places. It seems like that is the biggest opportunity, to be in- I agree ... those restaurants, to introduce your brand to consumers who are already familiar with Spanish food and culture.
Do you see that as the biggest opportunity? Yes, because the evolution that the Spanish food, the Spanish restaurants have had all over the world, it's been incredible the last 20 years. We are the second country after France of with Michelin star restaurants in the world, and I think that this is one of the ways that will help us to let people know more about Spanish wines.
If you look ahead to the next five, 10 years, what do you see as defining the next chapter for your brand? What role do you see Marques de Vargas playing in the global wine category? Again, we are a boutique winery. We have three wineries, one in Rioja, one in Ribera, which is Count of Conde de San Cristobal, and then in Galicia we have Pathos and Mauro.
All of them are relatively small compared with you know- Sure ... the big players. We produce between 250 to 300,000 bottles in each of the wineries, so we are a niche product. We sell everything we produce, so we don't need to worry much about the big trends of the industry because we are ahead of that.
Like any other niche product, we are not that influenced- ... with what is happening with all the category. Being a niche product- Sure ... allows you to do your own things, following your philosophy. We sell our wines every year, so it's a privileged situation. I'm glad I asked, because I speak with a lot of entrepreneurs who see brands that have scaled to a certain size, who have sold to really big companies, who have had that mega exit, and they don't necessarily need to use that as a guide for growth.
And I think sometimes the brands that do succeed are the ones that kind of stay under the radar, are the niche brands that do one thing or two things really well, and it sounds like that's the overall strategy. Yeah, we have not the ambition of getting bigger. Our ambition is to get our wines better and better every year.
If you could think about how wine is perceived in general to the US consumer and change how that communication happens, what would that thing be? I know, again, you're a premium wine that isn't necessarily for a novice, and not necessarily for someone who's just learning about wine. But I think, again, it's important from the standpoint of a- contextual education. What's one thing that you think is, might move the needle for American consumers? We are really unknown, Spanish wines in general, in the US. You know the US market. 75% of what is consumed in US market is American wine, and from the other 25%, Spain is probably less than 2%, so less than two points of the overall market.
So as you can imagine, there's a lot of work to be done to make Americans discover. I think that Americans coming to Spain, we are receiving more and more tourists in the last years in Spain, in Barcelona, in Canary Islands, in Majorca. This is a way for Americans to discover our food and our wines.
Is there a way that you could almost say Spanish wines are on par with or better than some wines that are sold in the United States from whatever region they're coming from, to the point where a Spanish wine might be undervalued? Yeah, I think that this is very true in the sense that in terms of value for money, th- which is not always the way we wanna be perceived.
But actually, it's a reality. We offer for each price category better quality and especially at the medium range level. Then obviously at the top level we are all producing great wines, and the prices are accordingly to the quality. But at the medium price range, I think that Spain has a role to play.
Here at the Nassau Paradise Island Wine and Food Festival, I always have to get that right, NPIWFF, you're about to have some of your wines served at a paella on the beach event hosted by Jose Andreas, which is pretty fantastic. When you're walking through the crowds and talking to people, do you watch how people consume your wine?
Absolutely. Do you keep a very close eye on that? Absolutely. Yeah? For us it's very important to see the reaction of, the comments, the suggestions, and we pay a lot of attention to these things. What are you looking for specifically? What I like to see in each country where I go is which are the wines that are best suited to the palate of that country.
Because then obviously we work with our importers how to develop the market for those particular wines that we see that, that are more successful, no? And does it have something to do with the food that's being served as well? Do you typically serve your wines with Spanish food, or do you have other suggestions in terms of cuisine?
No, in fact, what we love is to be able to introduce our wines not in Spanish restaurants, first of all because there are very few- And second, because the good thing is when people in a country consume your wines with their food. You should come to the Boston area more often because we have, not a lot, but we have quite a few Spanish restaurants, and they always seem to be packed, especially in my neck of the woods.
And people seem to love the experience of feeling like you're part of Spanish culture via the food, via the wine. And I think that always brings me back to why people do what they do in the first place, which is, you're in a position where you have a lot of business decisions to make. You're always thinking about vineyards and vintages, long-term decisions for the brand.
But do you have an opportunity to step back from the business side of things and remind yourself why you first fell in love with what you're doing? Yeah this is very clear. My grandfather had vineyards. I was his first grandson, and he always took me to work in the vineyards. That for him was the best thing in the world, and I always been attached to this world.
And it keeps you grounded, I think, in a way. It, the- Yes. You live with the nature. It's the vineyards, they only grow where there are four seasons very clearly marked. Winter, summer, and autumn and spring. And you live through those seasons every year very close to what's happening.
I almost imagine that the story and sharing the story of your experience growing up and eventually leading this company is one that is a great way to introduce people to the brand. Do you ever see yourself as part of the story or communicating the story through your experience? I'm more like a director behind the scenes- because at the end, what we always put in in first place is first the sites, the sites where the wines come from, the family that's behind this project- ... and the winemakers. I'm organizing all this or directing, if you like, or, you know- ... managing all this, but from behind.
I'm not the person to be in front. I- it's not about me. I'm enjoying your company and your conversation. I feel like- Thank you ... it's making me more interested in the brand, for sure. But one thing you didn't mention was the agriculture. Where does the agriculture fit into the story? How do you talk about the vineyards themselves?
We take care of our vineyards because our wines are coming always from our own vineyards. As I said, it's a single estate. They are all of them single estate wines. It's a legacy from generation to generation. We always say that we take care of the vineyards as if it was the garden of the château. And all our vineyards are organically grown- so we are certified organic, and we take a lot of care of the vineyard because it's where everything starts. The gardens of the château, is that what you said? Yeah. I love that. I would love for one day to have a home where I had gardens and my château, but for now I'll just have to imagine that's what I'm doing when I'm drinking your wine.
You can come and visit us. Oh, okay. I won't say no. Jordi, this has been fantastic. Thank you so much for taking the time. I really appreciate it, and really excited to drink your wine with some paella later tonight. Thank you very much, and thank you for this opportunity.
